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I live and work in Italy, but here programmers are not valued very much, and the average development organization sucks (often we don't even have formal design, and I'm talking about huge companies...).

So I would like to relocate in a country where software developers are well regarded and where companies use effective software development methodologies. So, where should I look?

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Are you considering the EU / Europe only, or would you look further afield? – Niall C. Sep 1 '10 at 20:43
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FOR CLOSERS: can you please write a comment about why you are proposing to close the question??? – Lorenzo Sep 1 '10 at 20:52
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It is fun that a question that asks "where in the world" is voted by 3 anonymous people as being "too localized". Maybe I'll try asking where in the galaxy, but then I'll need warp engines. – Lorenzo Sep 6 '10 at 7:10
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@Lorenzo as you might know, stay away from Italy :) – systempuntoout Sep 6 '10 at 10:21
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It's too localized because the premise of the question applies only to your specific situation: you living in Italy believing that you're not valued properly in your home country. Reword it to ask a general question that can apply to the majority of programmers and it won't be considered too localized. – user8 Sep 7 '10 at 20:05
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closed as too localized by Walter, Anna Lear May 23 '11 at 21:52

This question is unlikely to help any future visitors; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. For help making this question more broadly applicable, see the FAQ.

16 Answers

up vote 27 down vote accepted

How about scandinavia? Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden has quite big software industry and a big part of the population know english.

But I am from Sweden, so take that in count when reading my answer.

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Plus Scandinavians tend to rank higher for general happiness. I've been sorely tempted to move there (from the US). – Dan Ray Sep 1 '10 at 20:44
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I am a foreigner in Denmark. Taxes and prices are huge, weather and food are not great... @Dan Ray: ppl here are happy because they have low expectations. Is not a paradise ;) – Victor Hurdugaci Sep 9 '10 at 17:45
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In Scandinavia the taxes and prices may be high, but the vacations are long and the working hours usually reasonable. If you are looking for money, Scandinavia is probably not the best place for you, but otherwise I'd recommend it. Well, at least if you like cold winters. Of course I'm biased. – Carlos Sep 10 '10 at 15:11
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They can have as high standard of living as they want, I personally enjoy the sunshine in my face and reasonable temperatures throughout the year. – Jubbat Feb 27 '12 at 23:54
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If your looking to stay in Europe Ireland is a great choice.

Numerous European headquarters are based here, including:

  • Google
  • Microsoft
  • Yahoo
  • Facebook.

Some of the other companies based here are:

  • Apple
  • E-Bay
  • Amazon
  • Intel
  • Hewlett Packard

There is also quite a large demand for software developers with experience at the moment. I have been getting a lot of calls from recruiters and I haven't been looking for a job.

There is always talk of the unfilled I.T. jobs in Ireland, at last count it was over 8,000 (I am looking for the updated figure).

Like all the other E.U. states you can work in Ireland without a visa as long as you have citizenship of one of the other E.U. countries.

Update:

  • Twitter is the latest company to open an office here. LINK
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Companies are finding it hard to get experienced people as most people don't want to change jobs in the current climate. The salaries have ironically gone up in some situation in an effort to pouch people out of their current jobs. Just as example I seen a Senior J2EE role lately offering between 50k and 70k. – Gordon Dec 14 '10 at 13:49
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Come to the great USA.

I can't find the source but I have seen a survey where comparing to Europe, Japan and India, software engineers in the US have the highest satisfaction rating.

Update: I'd like to change my answer to USA/Canada.

I do know a few things about Canada, especially I helped my brother to immigrate to Canada in 2001. The process was relatively easy, but you do have to wait for one or two years and you can really do it by yourself. Canada is one of the most immigration friendly countries in the world.

Canada has a pretty good software industry too, perhaps on par with the US. Once you settle in Canada, it's much easier for you to find work in the US if that's what you want.

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You don't need a green card. You need a H1B visa. A US company who offers you a job will arrange for the visa. .. Or do it in two steps. Come to Canada (much easier than the US), become a Canadian, and get a job in the US afterwards. – Phillip Ngan Sep 1 '10 at 21:48
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Even for canadian working in the US you'll need a visa or green card. The process may be easier, but Canadians are still foreign nationals in the US. – Gabriel Mongeon Sep 2 '10 at 11:57
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@Phillip: yes, the idea is to get a permanent job, and therefore to immigrate. – Lorenzo Sep 7 '10 at 7:16
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Be wary of the US, at least in the short term. There's a layer of anti-immigrant paranoia that's being reflected in the laws -- though you might not have as rough a time of it, as you're white. (And yes, typing that prior sentence made me throw up in my mouth a bit; these are not my homeland's proudest days.) A buddy of mine from England recently got permanent resident status, and had to jump through all kinds of hoops AND get a lawyer AND was prohibited from earning any money during his first three months here -- and this was AFTER marrying his American girlfriend of several years. – BlairHippo Sep 10 '10 at 14:57
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Switzerland.

Specifically I suggest you go after the best among the best software jobs in the world. The Google Zurich office has been a highly successful global organization in Google. You can watch some videos from the YouTube lifeatgoogle channel and have a sense what it is like to work at Google. Interviewing at Google is not easy so I would suggest you read Steve Yegge's blog posts: 5 essential phone screen questions and Get that job at Google

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England (not London)

Despite the relatively weak economy there are still plenty of jobs in cities outside of London; Bristol, Reading, Birmingham, Manchester.

You'll have to take a 10%-25% drop in salary and day-rates but your costs of living will be significantly lower.

I am Bristol based and could hire 3 mobile developers today if I could find them. -- Richard Stelling

  • 20 days guaranteed holiday / year (normally 25-30)
  • Free health care (NHS)
  • Good Pubs
  • Excellent country side
  • Fantastic links to Europe id you want to travel
  • Minimal language barriers
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Lorenzo, you must ask yourself two questions:

1) would you relocate anywhere?
2) for how long?

I freelanced for 20+ years in over a dozen countries on 3 continents.

I intended to "go overseas for 6 months, just to see what it's like", and know that I am never going back.

In any country you will make enough for a decent standard of living - in that country.

But what if you want to return to Italy to retire? You wouldn't be able to after 30 years in Thailand.

My general advice is to work in expensive countries (Scandinavia, Japan) and retire to cheap ones (Asia, South America).

Although things like tax vary widely (50% income tax + 20% VAT in Germany, but 10-15% income tax and 6 or 7% VAT in Asia), I find that I generally pay can save about the same % of income in each country, so that it is better to save that % of a large salary.

I realize that you are talking about respect and satisfaction, but you do need to take finances into account (I once turned down a great job with IBM in NZ because I was paying more tax (and saving more) in Germany than they were offering as total salary).

Why not try taking a series of 6 or 12 months contracts? Even if you don't always get the job satisfaction you are looking for, you will get to see a lot of new cultures.

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Ireland or United States are often both cited as having the most programming jobs per-capita.

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+1 for answering with a ratio. – ixtmixilix Sep 27 '10 at 20:41

I live in the Netherlands and can give you my account of the Dutch software engineering job environment. I recently graduated and it was relatively easy for me to find something. At this moment a lot of companies are looking to hire new engineers.

I know that Philips and ASML often get people from abroad to work here. But there are a lot of good employers that might have less international fame. Furthermore, companies like Bosch have sites here. Everyone in the software world here speaks English and there are plenty of companies that will switch meetings to English if a non-Dutch speaker is present. Although I feel that every company does appreciate it if you at least study Dutch.

As for immigration... I don't know... I think for 'knowledge workers' the company can take care of it. For EU citizens, it's no problem as far as I know.

As for the working atmosphere at companies. I think most companies appreciate software quality, but of course it depends on the target market on how much time is spent on it (Philips Healthcare will want more attention to quality, and I suppose ASML will care more about being fast with delivering). The people are usually very relaxed and very informal and open. In general Dutch companies are not very hierarchical. I cannot imagine that I would ever have to call my manager Mr. (same holds for studying in the Netherlands). I think most people even don't like to be addressed that way. Lastly, it various quite a lot between companies how fast and ambitious the culture within the company is.

This is just my account of how I experience it. I have not been working that long, but I have been able to work at varies companies during my study. I hope this information can help you (or anyone else).

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Silicon Valley

Silicon Valley is in the southern part of the San Francisco Bay Area in Northern California, United States. The region is home to many of the world's largest technology companies including Apple, Google, Facebook, HP, Intel, Cisco, eBay, Adobe, Agilent, Oracle, Yahoo, Netflix, and EA. See 150 Silicon Valley Companies.

The term originally referred to the region's large number of silicon chip innovators and manufacturers, but eventually came to refer to all the high-tech businesses in the area; it is now generally used as a metonym for the American high-tech sector.

Despite the development of other high-tech economic centers throughout the United States and the world, Silicon Valley continues to be the leading hub for high-tech innovation and development, accounting for 1/3 of all of the venture capital investment in the United States. Geographically, the Silicon Valley encompasses all of the Santa Clara Valley including the city of San Jose (and adjacent communities), the southern Peninsula, and the southern East Bay.

 

The rise of software

Although semiconductors are still a major component of the area's economy, Silicon Valley has been most famous in recent years for innovations in software and Internet services. Silicon Valley has significantly influenced computer operating systems, software, and user interfaces.

Using money from NASA and the U.S. Air Force, Doug Engelbart invented the mouse and hypertext-based collaboration tools in the mid-1960s, while at Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International). When Engelbart's Augmentation Research Center declined in influence due to personal conflicts and the loss of government funding, Xerox hired some of Engelbart's best researchers. In turn, in the 1970s and 1980s, Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) played a pivotal role in object-oriented programming, graphical user interfaces (GUIs), Ethernet, PostScript, and laser printers.

While Xerox marketed equipment using its technologies, for the most part its technologies flourished elsewhere. The diaspora of Xerox inventions led directly to 3Com and Adobe Systems, and indirectly to Cisco, Apple Computer and Microsoft. Apple's Macintosh GUI was largely a result of Steve Jobs' visit to PARC and the subsequent hiring of key personnel. Cisco's impetus stemmed from the need to route a variety of protocols over Stanford's campus Ethernet.

 

Internet bubble

Silicon Valley is generally considered to have been the center of the dot-com bubble which started from the mid-1990s and collapsed after the NASDAQ stock market began to decline dramatically in April 2000. During the bubble era, real estate prices reached unprecedented levels. For a brief time, Sand Hill Road was home to the most expensive commercial real estate in the world, and the booming economy resulted in severe traffic congestion.

Even after the dot-com crash, Silicon Valley continues to maintain its status as one of the top research and development centers in the world. A 2006 Wall Street Journal story found that 13 of the 20 most inventive towns in America were in California, and 10 of those were in Silicon Valley. San Jose led the list with 3,867 utility patents filed in 2005, and number two was Sunnyvale, at 1,881 utility patents.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley

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Everyone knows that Silicon Valley is THE place to work. It would have had been more helpful if you had listed some possible ways for foreigners to get there. – craftsman Oct 13 '10 at 13:28
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Perhaps I should list anything, but that's not what the question asks. – Tom Wijsman Oct 13 '10 at 14:39
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How about Norway? It regularly ranks on the top of the UN's list of best places to live, and has an extremely low unemployment rate.

The Norwegian management style, as in other Scandinavian countries, is very "soft", and a boss is more seen as a coach than an authoritarian figure. As such, you can expect to have a great deal of saying in how things are done.

Did I mention you get 5 - 6 weeks of paid vacation each year?

We also have one of the worlds largest browser factories. Also, beautiful blond women.

The downsides are:

  • mostly Java and .Net consulting
  • it's cold and dark for the most of the year (although you can escape those five paid weeks of vacation)
  • there are a lot of taxes
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Lots of hyperlinks in this post. Yet none for the blond women you speak of ;) – makerofthings7 Oct 12 '10 at 3:58

How about Australia. During the recent global financial crisis it was one of the economies to perform best. I didn't notice any IT jobs downturn.

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I personally like Chennai, India

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Lol all Indian Ppl want to go to US or any other country and you are inviting him to India , and moreover i would not recommend Chennai if India , PPl dont even speak in english even after knowing you dont know tamil – 2-Stroker Oct 6 '10 at 12:03
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I guess ( hope ) he was being sarcastic :P – OscarRyz Dec 27 '10 at 22:05
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He said "personally like". – Nav Sep 27 '11 at 4:15
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Maybe because he LIVES in India which no-one else checked (his Profile). Also the question was Best country for GETTING a job', not necessarily best country to EARN the most. Also, fellow, Americans, not everyone wants to come to the gole 'ole USA, there's quite a few things here that folks don't like, though thankfully our current president has helped us a bit. Here comes the flames!!! – Michael Durrant Mar 8 '12 at 19:20

Have you considered the Middle East? UAE and Qatar generally give high salary with a low number of working hours.

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-1 I have spent almost 3 years in the Middle East, speak Arabic, and would not recommend the life there to anyone. – ixtmixilix Sep 27 '10 at 20:40
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@ixtmixilix can you please explain, why would you not recommend anyone there? – craftsman Oct 13 '10 at 13:18

Do as I did: stay in Italy but get a telecommuting job in the US. Besides the weird working hours (4 PM to midnight) it's perfect.

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Brazil is close to full employment right now, and the people is as noisy and annoying as Italians. :-)

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In the USA, unless you get a job for a software company, you won't be using standard methodologies for development, but you'll have to do things as fast as you can to meet the deadlines. z

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