Is Java “dead in the water” as a consequence of Oracle buying Sun and subsequently suing Google

Question

Google has led many useful Java features (guava, gson); now that Oracle has purchased Sun will it effect its future enhancements and utilization as a development language.

What exactly, or even approximately, are the legal ramifications? I thought Java was open source and would therefore remain unaffected ... ?

Should Google just buy Oracle to get rid of the whole mess, that would be cool wouldn't it ?

Do you think this is the beginning of the end for Java as a widely used language ? Its continued success as an open source/free technology is now doubtful?

Answer 1

Is Java "dead in the water"

Absolutely not. Far too many companies and people have invested in building Java software for Java to be dead in the water.

What exactly, or even approximately, are the legal ramifications?

On the face of it, there are two significant things alleged by Oracle's lawsuit:

• The copyright violations are difficult to get a handle on, because it is not clear what Oracle is alleging has been copied.

• The patent violations are more tangible, but it is unclear if the patents would stand a challenge based on prior art, inventiveness, etc, or whether the SCOTUS ruling in Bilski undermines them.

The legal outcome is unclear at this stage, and the consequences are unpredictable. Maybe Google and Oracle will settle the lawsuit, some money will change hands, patents will be cross-licensed, and we're back to business as usual. Or maybe it will go to court ...

I thought Java was open source and would therefore remain unaffected ... ?

All Sun Java sources that have been released under GPL will remain open sourced. Java 6 and 7 cannot be un-GPL'ed. Hypothetically, Oracle could change their mind about future releases, but I predict that it won't happen. A couple of days ago Oracle announced they remained committed to Java being open source, and that they were going to open source JavaFX. An about-face for Oracle on this issue now would be a publicity nightmare.

(Incidentally, the Google / Oracle spat is about Java on mobile devices; i.e. JavaME. The JavaME codebase has NOT been open sourced.)

Should Google just buy Oracle to get rid of the whole mess, that would be cool wouldn't it ?

Could they? Probably not. Oracle is probably too big for Google to buy.

Should they? Probably not. But that would be a business decision, not a decision based on "coolness" ... or doing the Java community a favour.

Would it actually be a favour for the Java community? I'm not sure. I'm not convinced that Java would survive the rampant moving-target-ism that seems to be rife in the Android world under Google's stewardship. However, this may just be "a teenage phase" that Android is going through.

Do you think this is the beginning of the end for Java as a widely used language ? Its continued success as an open source/free technology is now doubtful?

Unclear. Probably not. Java still has lots to offer, and the Google / Oracle debate (and even Java's open source-ness) is not relevant to most developers and businesses that use Java.

I'm inclined to the view that it is Oracle's ongoing level of investment in Java that will determine Java's long term future. And their ability to hang onto key Java engineers ... given the change in corporate culture. If Oracle fumble this, there is a chance that Java will fragment, and that the long-term future will be in some non-Oracle dialect of Java. (Maybe something coming out of Google or maybe something else.)

Answer 2

Java will stay around, but I think these issues will lead Java down a road away from Open Source. It will start to be more closed like C# and the .NET languages with how Oracle is suing Google even though it is "open source" (for now). And Google created Go, which with this issue over Java may lead them to eventually recreate/modify Android to use Go as well as, or in place of Java.

Answer 3

Companies keep suing each other, there are 100's of examples for that. This doesn't really mean end of the road all the time.

Answer 4

Back to the Future

Back many moons ago, Microsoft was heavily investing in Java via J++. While many different motivations were ascribed to what was going on, the fact was that a lot of time & talent & resources were being invested in improving the Java environment and making it run really well on Windows.

Then Sun sued Microsoft and won a billion dollar settlement. This made it obvious that it was in Microsoft's best fiscal interest to compete with, rather than cooperate with, Java. C# was born very soon after.

Jump forward a decade. It's now in Google's best fiscal interest to compete with, rather than cooperate with, Java. I suspect that smart people inside Google will figure this out and make a very similar decision to the one Microsoft did.

Answer 5

Oracle, as an application developer, has a big incentive to keep JEE at the top of the pile. They use Java in their database. Their toolset (eg JDeveloper, SQL Developer...) are all java based.

I don't think Java is at any risk, except of abandonment by Open Source zealots who can't stand a commercial company that makes a profit out of selling software.

Answer 6

Java is still open source. The problem is J2ME, the mobile edition.

You'll note the numerous lawsuits about Linux, the Linux Kernel, SCO, etc, etc, etc... haven't really hurt Linux at all, have they?

Answer 7

Programming languages evolve.

I think that Google will evolve Java under a different name together with Dalvik as the VM. And Oracle will probably evolve Java in a different direction. Or Google could start to use Python or another languages more, and as the default language on Android.

I don't think Google will use Go on Android since Go is meant to be a new "system programming language" for e.g. web servers.

UPDATE: Apple deprecates Java

This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.

If Java wasn't already dead on the client side, I don't think it will be better now. Swing is pretty outdated as GUI framework and I don't think that Oracle will change that. So for now I only see Java as an alternative on the server-side.

Answer 8

Does any language ever actually disappear? I wish some would, but that's another matter.

The problem with corporate ownership of any software base is they start acting like the world is their cash cow, making changes, roping everybody into upgrades, and making it impossible to stay with older versions that work just fine. To me, that's the primary value of GNU - they don't do that.

Answer 9

Java isn't going away. Oracle was using Java as a language for stored database procedures shortly after it came out, and last I hung around Oracle people there were indications that Oracle would really like to drop its proprietary PL/SQL in favor of Java. Oracle will continue to develop Java, although not necessarily in the same directions Sun would have.

While Oracle is not friendly to Open Source (openSolaris as run by Sun is apparently dead), they'll likely keep the open portions open (and they can't withdraw an OS license issued by Sun).

The Google suit is largely because what Google's doing isn't straight Java, but rather is compiled to another VM that apparently works better for Google's purposes, but is close enough to what Java does to trigger lawsuits. It will doubtless get resolved, probably with Oracle getting something from Google.