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360

Yes, developers think working long hours is a sign of machismo, it really is stupidity. Best startup I ever worked for had a solid testing framework, zero regressions, high code velocity. Everyone worked 9-5, weekdays only. My wife was astonished to see me for dinner so regularly. If we ever had to pull long shifts, the company had a fresh team that was ...


35

One thing that astounds me is that software developers rarely belong to unions or collective wage agreements. I now work for a software house that is unionised, and have the best working conditions of my life, and the best in the city. So to answer the question is probably covered by a broader issue - software engineers are (as a massive generalization), ...


26

In my opinion there should never be a reason to work overtime, weekends, etc. for a business where you are just an employee (if you are a partner, stakeholder, or if it's your own business then it's acceptable once in a while). Any time this happens, it indicates a much larger problem (usually at the management level) and that problem should be addressed ...


19

The most significant factor in working long (unpaid) hours, as I see it, is the culture of the department. If everyone else stays back in the office until 8pm then you're going to be expected to as well. This culture is often brought about because 90% of the time, management are unable to see a true picture of the productivity of developers. The easiest ...


18

From my first job at a consulting company: "We don't work for free." - CEO This is not to say that the sales team didn't do a lot of work, that they didn't do lots of marketing, etc, but that there were limits. I have learned that employers will allow you to do as much work as you are willing to do, and if you are willing to do the work of two people, they ...


9

demand better working conditions Are you kidding? What sort of environment are you working in? Tents in the middle of the desert? Forced to deal with unearthed equipment? Are you beaten over the back of the head with a blunt object (not the rubber duck testing type, mind) if your bugs don't pass smoke tests? Let's get a sense of perspective here: none ...


9

A couple of points to raise here. Job availability can be locally constrained. It's very hard to walk out on a job regardless of the conditions if there is no easy replacement. Work disposal is not locally constrained as in off-shoring is increasingly an option for some companies. May not be wise but that doesn't generally trouble decision makers. Most ...


8

The culture for this varies wildly from place to place. I've been freelancing in London for 10 years, and I left my last perm place because there was a culture where people stayed late every night, and would sometimes come in at weekends, without overtime. It was ridiculous, but people did it, and just had no other life outside of the company. I think ...


7

Recently, I moved jobs. I was working as a young developer, happy for having a full time job in a professional environment. I was working with big name clients, on large projects, with other good programmers. However some days I would start at two in the morning and leave at 7 in the evening. I would get paid basically nothing for this. I would miss going ...


5

It is a good idea to demand better working conditions. Unfortunately, management is rarely aware of the value of individuals working in their IT department. Management always thinks that people are replaceable. This is not always true. Another reason for the sad situation is that management don't always understand the value if individual contribution ...


5

I think what you're asking is: Isn't it stupid to accept regular overtime? I don't think anyone denies that there's going to be times when you have to stay late or come in on a weekend... The problem arises when that becomes a regular pattern, as is often the case at many companies. Part of the reason why this is predominant in our culture is due to the ...


4

I agree that programmers/developers should factor in the quality of the job and request good working conditions. If your job sucks, apply and get something better. Try getting your fellow employees to follow suit. But unions as they typically work in the US are not the answer. Unions treat all workers as equal fungible commodities, while one programmer ...


3

If you are constantly working long hours without appropriate compensation, then I would suggest you re-evaluate your employment with the company. However, as a professional in this or any industry, you must recognize that there will be times where schedules get a little out of whack from internal or external influences. In those times, we need to step up ...


3

Given that most of the software developers I know are big-L Libertarians who think of unions the way most of us think of child molesters, I don't see many programmer's unions popping up any time soon. I've seen the whole spectrum. In the late '90s I worked for a bunch of workaholics; they were miserable people who were only happy in the office, so ...


1

This is up to you. If you company get for you a lot of advantage, not only money. Afterwards you have a chance to developing your career work. And if you just think working is a temporary, you have a lot of fun things outside. So you don't need to work overtime for getting a paid money. To me, I will try to work hard on working time, and try to avoid working ...


1

Your scenario goes for nearly anyone not just programmers/developers. Some people are good salespeople and will be able to convince others to work in less-than-ideal (or downright bad) conditions with a promise. The problem is not all bad situations end in disaster (but perhaps the majority of situations do) and because such scenarios pop up with regularity ...


1

there are many options to get a new job or get self-employed Not everyone has better options, only professional developers have.



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