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Jul
9
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: Thanks for helping me walking through that. I appreciate the input.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: I think your view on user is too limited. In real life we have competing priorities. The customer is always at the forefront of our thoughts. But we have other architectural concerns that have other users (Accounts/Management.etc) to make sure we build a product that is maintainable.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: Our service is currently running on AWS when they shut down machines we create maintenance stories. We currently have $100,000 per month bill for storage so we have a story to reduce storage costs. We had a bug that has been fixed but we noticed some strange data so we have Data Quality story. We have a story to fix an issue with logging as this affects customer charging. None of these are important to the customer. We could just call them random tasks, but we count them as stories as they affect our velocity. Some of these will out way "Customer" stories and get into the sprint.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: Sure we could do that. If we did that we would have several sprints were we completed no stories and only did tasks (architecture).You seem to stuck in the mind set that the "customer" is the only user(and thus the only person that gets stories). I disagree with that concept. To me there are many types of user. The customer is the most important one but I have to serve all of them. I can only amass so much technical debt (As Thomas puts it) before it becomes unmaintainable and costs the company more than we make from the product so the customer is not the only user I worry about.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@ThomasOwens: But you did them first. Its a sprint and a story. We work on stories that will facilitate us doing the top priority story. Its not that we pick random stories we want to do, we work closely with the PO. But sometimes stories are just not doable at the current time; the architecture is not there to support it. There is not point in doing a story that can not succeed yet. Can't be that wrong. We deliver at the end of each sprint. We move forward rapidly and the software is well tested and maintainable with few bugs and neither our PO or customer are upset.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@ThomasOwens: The first stories we did on this project were not in the top 100 of the product backlog. The product owner did not rate it as important at all. But the whole team insisted that it must be done first. 1) Story: Allow a developer/tester to build any part of the project on their machine/Test environment/Production using the same set of tools/commands /*long description about tools*/ 2) Story: Allow a developer to checks in code, so that it is automatically validated against unit tests and full system build by scheduled and validated against test data. /* Lots more detail*/.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: I think you are talking about ideals that we should strive for while I am describing the reality of scrum in the real world.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@ThomasOwens: Yep. All stories are user stories. But not all users are customers. Not all stories can be done without infrastructure. Sure if you are writing a small web app or a desktop application then yes I am sure you can get away with that. In reality no. If you build big software it takes more though on the architecture. I have several stories at the top of the backlog that can not even be attempted (probably for a year) as we need underlying stories to work first. We have mocjed out the UI so that we can show what it looks like but real interaction is not going to work.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: If I had product owners that were technically competent (or when they gain enough experience to understand the nuances of a large system) then I can see the role being extended in that direction. But until that point I can not see them directing architectural choices that would be discussed with the developers while working out tasks.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@ThomasOwens: I agree with your point on SM (see my note above in the article); And in a perfect world I would also agree on how the sprint backlog is filled, but in reality no. There are always stories that NEED doing that the product owner does not rate as important (as they are not customer facing). But in reality they need to be done because architectural they will be in a mess if you don't do them.
Jul
8
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@ThomasOwens: In a perfect world yes. But in reality no. There are always stories that NEED doing that the product owner does not rate as important (as they are not customer facing). But in reality they need to be done because architectural they will be in a mess if you don't do them.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: Added a paragraph.
Jul
7
revised Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
added 731 characters in body
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: I think you like playing with words: To me facilitator and coach sounds exactly like a lead. But sure I can see that he does not need to be part of the team.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: Yes. I agree. I think that is also what I said three comments above. I am using SM in this context as a short hand for the team as the SM is usually (but not required) the team lead (or a member of the development team that talks to the PO). But I agree with your point. I just think we are arguing over wording. The point being that the PO does not decide what is in the sprint as that is a technical discussion. BUT he does influence it heavily by the ordering of the backlog.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: But note there are two backlogs. The product backlog is controlled by the PO and ordered appropriately. The sprint backlog which is owned by the SM (and/or team). The stuff that goes in the sprint backlog should be from the top of the product backlog BUT not all stories can be done without other architectural stories being implemented first. So the SM (and the devs) should make sure to pick architectural priorities first when the high priority stories depend on the architectural stories.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@BryanOakley: I totally agree with you. Maybe my wording just needs refining. Maybe more the teams job (rather than SM by himself) to pick what goes into the sprint during sprint planning (PM is not a pig (just a chicken) and gets no say at this point).
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@user226825: Read the definition of story. It is a description of a user performing a task not a thing.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@user226825: Yes but in sprint one you built wheels and transmission. In Sprint 2 you built steering in sprint three you will build thrusters. Your examples are too hypothetical to really discuss further. But yes the PO gets to order the product backlog.
Jul
7
comment Scrum: How much can the Product Owner shake up the Product Backlog?
@user226825: Once you have built the bike you can go back to building the car. But what is the point in building a car when the user wants a bike. That is why you have demos. So the user can see what you have done and tell you that you are on the wrong track and building a car when he only wants a bike.